Wounded Honor
August 2, 2007 by Enigma4ever
This post may be personal, but I think there are many families wrestling with The Issue I am going to raise. And watching the Tillman Hearings has been tugging at my heart, and also making the Issue of Honor all the more poignant. I am a mom, and yes I am a long time Anti-war person, I was raised Quaker, and I am a Buddhist. I was mostly raised by steel magnolias, Strong Southern Women, bourbon drinking swearing Kentucky women that made me speak my mind and my heart.
I am raising my son with those values well intact and passed on with love and repect. He is a teenager, I lovingly call him 6-6 on my blog, he is my ManChild, a gentle giant. He is more cerebral than me, he is always immersed in books, and the computer. He thinks with his mind and his heart. He wants to be a writer, and make movies, independent films. But the Conversation….the Discussion that we keep having is about Honor.
It goes like this, late at night when I am tired, he will will bring IT up again. Now heaven help us if it is day when I have been listening to the Tillman Hearings (aka LIES).
“I think I should do Something that has Honor” he says.
I say:” “well, wanting to be a Writer is very honorable.”
6-6 responds,” I am not sure it is good enough. Does it make a real difference? I think the Military , what about the Marines, and the National Guard?”
I say: ” Yes, it is true they are Honorable Men and Women, and they do good work. But What about Iraq, would you ever want to go there, and be stuck in a Civil War ?”
6-6 says:” Hmm, you are right, I don’t want to be part of an Illegal War. But what about the National Guard, they serve the Country.They are not trained to Kill”.
Enigma now groaning and really tired,”Well, that is true. But the Troops over in Iraq are more than 30% Guard, and 70% of our Guard have been rotated over to Iraq. They also are not taken care of well enough, and also not trained to kill or really even be in battle. But they have NO control over the work they do.”
6-6: “Well what other options do I have?”
ME: ” What about the Peace Corp ?”
6-6:”well, considering we are hated all over the World now, is that really worth pursuing ? I mean I don’t want to be the next Chris Matthews….Can you Understand I just want to do something that matters, makes a difference”.
I have had people in my family that served, WWII and Vietnam, so I do understand what makes young people want to make a difference. And I understand after 911 Recruitment rates went up and people wanted to make a difference, and yes many fine young men and women are in Iraq because of that patriotism that swept over the land….and I worry. Because I think we are in an Era where again propaganda could easily be used by Men Without Honor to usurp the Dreams and Hopes of Honorable Young People.
And I think that there are coffins returning to Dover everyday , hidden from view, hidden from the Scrutiny and Questions, hidden from the Eyes and Hearts of us all. There are times when the Silence and Lies and Hidden photos are indeed part of the Propaganda, and the Wounding of Honor of this Country.
Tags: Honor, Making a difference,
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Wonderful, thoughtful post. I’ve raised 2 sons, & fortunately neither seems inclined to go to war. I don’t know what I’d do if they did, but I’d probably do exactly what you’ve done. There are many ways to find honor, & for the most part it has more to do with thinking independently & non-violence. I think young men need & want to test themselves in the world, but fighting a war in a country whose citizens don’t really want us there doesn’t offer much in the way of what I imagine he’s looking for. The military certainly doesn’t encourage independent thinking at all.
Nice post, Enigma:
It’s been a number of years now but as I went through basic training for the regular army, my nephew (smarter and wiser, no doubt) went through the same basic tng for his national guard unit.
Sadly, we were both trained to kill. Always they drilled into both regulars and guardsmen, that was our primary purpose — the art of war and killing.
Maybe things have changed. Maybe the guard just does stuff like bookkeeping, vehicle maintenance and preparing for national emergencies like Katrina, where they help civilians through crises — if not deployed in Iraq. (For a second or third time.)
Fight tooth and nail to keep him here. There is honor in being a writer and film maker. He could use his talent for the military in mind with what he writes or chooses to film about. I’ve got 2 sons and I’ll stop at nothing to keep them here. If it takes my life savings I’d see to it they live in a foreign country…that’s how strongly I feel about it. I’ve told them just shoot me now then because I don’t want to live if you were sent over there. I don’t want my children killing others anyway. I don’t want a draft either…it’s a touchy subject for me obviously. I come from a long line of conscientious objector friends. My father was in WW2…I heard all the stories. He’s all you’ve got…hang onto him…don’t let George have him. I had high school guy friends not come back from Vietnam…we’ve got to get this stopped! Dusty lives with her niece over there…I don’t know how she does it…I’d cave.
Thanks, I will fight tooth and nail to keep him here for sure…and move to Canada if they put in a draft….he is my ONLY son ( although if I had 10 I would feel no different)…..I will fight to keep him safe…..move him to film school in Canada if I have to….You all know how I fell about him…but I was struck that this is such an important issue, He wants to do Something Good…..How many over in the sands of Iraq also wanted to do Something Good, something Honorable esp. After 911….
My son could not kill, he hand carries all bugs outside….6-6 and his bugs….the other nite he found a grasshopper in his room…and he was so worried he hurt it carrying it downstairs….
Thank you for sharing your stories….and support…and many know I have been having this discussion with my son all summer…but I see it as a bigger problem…I know there are other people that are wrestling with this…
Dada: I am sure both are trained in many things, including killing.War is considered an art….a skill….breaks my heart.
Sumo: YOU KNOW I will always try to help him reach his future and Something Honorable….always. I have made that Promise for a long time.Your sons are lucky to have you….
Demon Princess:Thank you for reminding me about the Independent Thinking part- that is important….thank you for raising such sons…
This post hit me personally too. I have a 27 year old that works in the new housing market as a plumber..he has thought about joining the military a lot lately for the bonus alone.
It took quite a bit of hard facts and figures for me to convince him he would be a grunt AND a pinata for the Iraqi’s and his chances of ever spending that cash would be slim and none the way that fucking war is going.
And sadly Dusty- as more of us struggle with the economic landscape as it is ( esp.hard for your son’s age group) ….this “option” sits there beckoning to young struggling working class men and women….set him straight- help him find other options….My heart aches for you- and I can just imagine the “discussions”….Maybe just Maybe the Govt will realize our Infrastructure is a friggin mess- and needs repair ALL over- maybe they will realize that we need some WPA projects…..( wouldn’t that be something -if they realize we need to do work at home instead of starting wars elsewhere???)
Very good enigma
I understand your quandry but my way of looking at it is it is up to them. All I can do is give my opinion. I will not sway my sons or attempt to. If they have any angst or regrets in their life I do not want to be the source in their mind.
I was just talking to my son who is explosive ordinance disposal and just returned from Afghanistan in time for the birth of his second daughter. He was on call in Jackson hole wyoming why I don’t know. I think he is crazy but I can’t get in his way he is a man. He just said he is going back to Iraq in June to lead his troops. It is what he wants to do though he is mulling things over but I can’t add to his quandry.
His brother has just over a month left flying support for Iraq and he will be in Afghanistan next then back to Iraq. To them they are doing their jobs and serving their commitments and that is all they see.
I see them being abused and misused but am just an observer. Vietnam was ours sadly these are theres and they are just beginning. I am just an observer I am sad to say and would prefer to be in front of my sons. Quandries all around!
Jim, I think your son feels an attachment to the men within his group, not the war. I have read that most of the men that have done multiple tours feel that allegiance to the other men they served with. They want to do everything they can to bring them all home safe and sound.
My pov comes from a mother, a female..which I think is quite different than that of a father or male. This doesn’t take anything away from how you view your role in regards to your son..it just means it’s different than my perspective.
E4E..If ONLY we spent our money on WPA projects which would give the inner-city youth and others in areas with high unemployment a sense of worth and a livable income. We would serve many purposes with that instead of the current alternative..which is to die for nothing but another country’s Oil.
Dusty I fully agree with you. I am a Father and I raised men. It is now up to them how they procced. A Mother fills her role and I think she should always serve that role throughout her childs life. A mothers bond is something unique and special.
Thanks Jim…and Dusty…I also am raising a teenager - he is not a Man yet…I am trying merely to keep him on a path to be the Man he is meant to be….or wants to be ….I think what is confusing is that we as parents try to teach our children well, nurture them…help them.,..what concerns me more is What the Media and our Govt to a degree peddles as “patriotism” , or even as reality….and like before the Iraq War if the Media had just explored more and tried to asses /investigate Were there WMD to cause all of these fine people to be sent to Iraq ??? I also agree with Dusty- that sadly Men that are already in the Military feel bound to their groups, not the war….I have meant many that said that…..
I do appreciate what you as a father have tried to teach your sons, and that they are now on their own path…and I guess it is true that men and women nurture their children differently…but the pain we feel as we watch our children is the same…but thank you for appreciating that a mother’s bond is different….I guess it is…
and yeah, WPA projects …wouldn’t that be something..sigh…would give our young people a feeling of worth again…pride….
thanks folks for thinking on the issue of Honor….in these hard times…
Good post:
I am not in that spot never having a son, but if i did I would try my best to gently persuade him not to join this mess.
If you pressure them, often they go the other way. I know daughters struggle with this.
War is hell, and very few want their kids in that kind of inferno.
My children are grown and of course they believe the same as I do, that war is not the answer. Thank God none of them have ever wanted to go into the military.
Excellent post E4E!
enigma, great post and really great discussion.
Alaskababy: thanks for coming over and reading the post…we need to discuss this on coffee shops, and in diningrooms, and on buses…thanks..
SusieQ; you are right War is Never the Answer and never a solution….thanks again for thinking on this,….
Larry: what you say is so true how to persaude- gently…but what bothers me is that the media etc does not help give someone like my son THE TRUTH- which can be so persausive…
enigma…
Hide your son and hide him well. If he would have to protect our country from the Fascist Nazi takeover they would come for him to see him stopped.
I believe they ordered the killing of Pat Tilman and if true they would kill anyone who could fight to stop them.
God Bless.
Speaking of the by-gone WPA projects that got ordinary Americans working in the Depression–(& the only thing that differs now is that the Adminstration refuses to acknowledge that we’ve got a split economy–the very wealthy as opposed to the struggling, & no comfortable ground in between), I saw this today on NPR. What a great idea! Hope it gets funded:
NPR : Public Service Academy Draws New Attention
Public Service Academy Draws New Attention
All Things Considered, August 2, 2007 · In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Shawn Raymond and Chris Myers Asch put an idea into play: The U.S. Public Service Academy. Now Sen. Hillary Clinton has put them in the spotlight. Raymond and Meyers Asch tell Melissa Block where their project stands.
Of course, the clickable link doesn’t come through. Go to NPR.org to hear the radio interview. It’s a proposal to fund 4 years of college if the kids agree to give back 5 years of public service.
Demon Princess: Thanks for finding out about this- I will look it up…I think it is a vvalid idea- if it lets our kids work here and doing things that are peaceful and fulfilling and utilizes the skills they obtain in college…I think personally it should be 4 for 4 ….but what do I know…
AnonP: sadly I think if it was up to Bush we would have a Draft by now…and I still think that it is in his plans…and yes, I worry…alot.
Okay Demon Princess: Now the Bad news, I looked up this Academy- it is NOT what we think….it is an ACTUAL Academy- based on Military Academys- modeled that way- and it DOES require Military Service ( see page 9 of their manual). AND it is Like an Exclusive club- they will only take a Select Number from each state- and Only with Congressional Reccomendations and References- this is not for kids from struggling families….sorry …it is NOT what we thought it was….it is basically creating An Alternative Military Academy…..( bad on Hillary- she should read the Manual)…..and you are right the Link does not work…( accident?)….and you can download the manual- for the USPublic Service Academy….( and THEY choose your career path and your Service- urghhhhh)…but I do say thank you for trying to find a viable alternative…..
( He has been now reading up on the Americorps…I will go look that up next…)
hey enigma, this was so moving! i love that you are raising a THINKING son…and that you are giving him room to forge his own path…
i know if i had a war-eligible son, i throw my body on top of him to keep him from going there…but that wouldn’t exactly help him to learn to make his own choices as an adult should.
sadly, the propaganda of which you speak IS being used to manipulate and delude our young people into fighting bush’s illicit war…i have a niece who recently decided to enlist and is being promised the moon and the stars, none of which will be delivered…they just want bodies to trade for oil…
Bluegrrrl: I am so sorry about your niece…that is awful…but I know people too that did the same thing…I am trying to raise him right- but as you said the propaganda is rampant…..and yes, I will not let him be drafted …or anything like that….I think what threw him and he never got over was the Katrina mess- he thought the Guard should have been there- and they should have….En Masse…thanks again…for thinking and sharing..
Bluegrrrl..my niece bought into their bs hook,line and sinker. She is a college educated woman too..but very young. She regrets her decision..but sadly its a little late for that.
The recruiter told her it would look good on her resume..she was a criminal law major. She is in Afghanistan and I worry each day since it’s getting bad over there now.
Dusty…I a so sorry that she is there and that she got fed a line…you have to wonder how many bought the line…awful..
Yikes, about that Public Service Program I found on PBS: I had no idea, that sucks~
Demon Princess- it sounded like such a good option, many families probally heard about it on NPR and thought what a great option and opportunity- it was only reading the Manual ( which you have to download in PDF) that the Reality hit, esp. p9 about REQUIRED Military service and training….really sad, because we have so many young people in this country that need to be offered a way to contribute and learn, and not have to be part of some sort of Military project……( Maybe Hillary should read the manual too). I am still researching the Americorps idea ( I will blog later what I find). Thanks for thinking outside the box and suggesting something interesting….sadly the Govt is still in the Box….