Comments on: spark of controversy http://sirenschronicles.com/2008/02/28/spark-of-controversy/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."-Teddy Roosevelt Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:19:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Dusty http://sirenschronicles.com/2008/02/28/spark-of-controversy/comment-page-1/#comment-3832 Dusty Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:33:34 +0000 http://sirenschronicles.com/2008/02/28/spark-of-controversy/#comment-3832 Socio-economic is a big one too, thanks Fran! Socio-economic is a big one too, thanks Fran!

]]> By: betmo http://sirenschronicles.com/2008/02/28/spark-of-controversy/comment-page-1/#comment-3829 betmo Fri, 29 Feb 2008 03:37:52 +0000 http://sirenschronicles.com/2008/02/28/spark-of-controversy/#comment-3829 fran- i can't speak to knowing because i don't consider myself a feminist- and i don't do groups. i don't like crowds and i loathe stupidity. putting both in the same room with me makes me very cranky. all i know- the white feminists i have come into contact with so far on the internet- pretty focused on hillary's campaign right now- and policing the net for misogyny. both are no win situations. the women of color and/or lgbt ladies pretty much have the same complaint- the white chicks are not overly welcoming unless they adhere to the 'don't ask don't tell' let's all be friends and not muddy the waters approach. the idea that women are any more inclusive than men in this country- has pretty well been debunked in my mind. if any uncomfortable subject is broached- instant defensive mode! it's unfortunate for many reasons- one of the bigger ones being- the neo cons aren't going away- and folks of color would be powerful allies. fran- i can’t speak to knowing because i don’t consider myself a feminist- and i don’t do groups. i don’t like crowds and i loathe stupidity. putting both in the same room with me makes me very cranky. all i know- the white feminists i have come into contact with so far on the internet- pretty focused on hillary’s campaign right now- and policing the net for misogyny. both are no win situations. the women of color and/or lgbt ladies pretty much have the same complaint- the white chicks are not overly welcoming unless they adhere to the ‘don’t ask don’t tell’ let’s all be friends and not muddy the waters approach. the idea that women are any more inclusive than men in this country- has pretty well been debunked in my mind. if any uncomfortable subject is broached- instant defensive mode! it’s unfortunate for many reasons- one of the bigger ones being- the neo cons aren’t going away- and folks of color would be powerful allies.

]]> By: fran http://sirenschronicles.com/2008/02/28/spark-of-controversy/comment-page-1/#comment-3827 fran Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:35:43 +0000 http://sirenschronicles.com/2008/02/28/spark-of-controversy/#comment-3827 I went to a local Woman's activist group that held a meeting based on the topic of *Hillary*. I'll tell you up front, I have been long term *not a Hillary fan*, but I went to the meeting because I really respect the group- lots of retired pros, League of Woman Voters & bright minds-- I wanted to hear what they had to say & test the waters of what was going on in other female voters minds. I did hear some drivel about *first woman president*, and even a generic, Woman tend to vote for things women share in common, on social/care issues. But I said I can & will not vote for a person based on gender alone. I care about their voting record. The record is the bottom line for me- regardless of whatever sound bites they throw out at the poduim while the cameras are rolling. How did ya vote? In Clinton's case it was yes for war & then yes for the Kyl- Lieberman Iran war bill. Those two items are a huge red flag for me. Even if the first iraq war vote was based on bad information, what justification was there for voting yes again, based on NO information or, once again bad information. When a million people die based on bad information, at the very least a lesson could or should have been learned to damned well do your homework before engaging. Besides other overtones of entrenched, corrupt insider, and fitting nicely in the spineless dem category, I can;t support her. As for the factioning of feminists~ I think it is a multifaceted issue- not just between color, race, and sexual orientation-- but I'll throw in socio economic circumstance as well. A middle to upper class feminist might be fighting for equal wages, a low income feminist might be struggling to pay a winter heating bill & medical costs. Spread it across the globe-- women in Africa may see the AIDS issue, and just getting safe drinking water as a main priority. But even within the borders of one country, the spectrum of one group vs another could have wildly varying interests. I see it in peace groups too. Our town has about 10 different groups, occasionally they work together, but they have different approaches, and focuses, and styles of operation. Essentially the peace groups don't get along. It's not surprising the feminist groups don't either, but to have it faction down & weaken the movement overall is too bad. Is it blinders of only wanting to address their own regional/personal issues, or is it indifference & failure to acknowledge & respect & include other Sister's issues? I went to a local Woman’s activist group that held a meeting based on the topic of *Hillary*. I’ll tell you up front, I have been long term *not a Hillary fan*, but I went to the meeting because I really respect the group- lots of retired pros, League of Woman Voters & bright minds– I wanted to hear what they had to say & test the waters of what was going on in other female voters minds. I did hear some drivel about *first woman president*, and even a generic, Woman tend to vote for things women share in common, on social/care issues. But I said I can & will not vote for a person based on gender alone. I care about their voting record. The record is the bottom line for me- regardless of whatever sound bites they throw out at the poduim while the cameras are rolling. How did ya vote? In Clinton’s case it was yes for war & then yes for the Kyl- Lieberman Iran war bill. Those two items are a huge red flag for me. Even if the first iraq war vote was based on bad information, what justification was there for voting yes again, based on NO information or, once again bad information. When a million people die based on bad information, at the very least a lesson could or should have been learned to damned well do your homework before engaging. Besides other overtones of entrenched, corrupt insider, and fitting nicely in the spineless dem category, I can;t support her.
As for the factioning of feminists~ I think it is a multifaceted issue- not just between color, race, and sexual orientation– but I’ll throw in socio economic circumstance as well. A middle to upper class feminist might be fighting for equal wages, a low income feminist might be struggling to pay a winter heating bill & medical costs. Spread it across the globe– women in Africa may see the AIDS issue, and just getting safe drinking water as a main priority. But even within the borders of one country, the spectrum of one group vs another could have wildly varying interests. I see it in peace groups too. Our town has about 10 different groups, occasionally they work together, but they have different approaches, and focuses, and styles of operation. Essentially the peace groups don’t get along. It’s not surprising the feminist groups don’t either, but to have it faction down & weaken the movement overall is too bad. Is it blinders of only wanting to address their own regional/personal issues, or is it indifference & failure to acknowledge & respect & include other Sister’s issues?

]]> By: Dusty http://sirenschronicles.com/2008/02/28/spark-of-controversy/comment-page-1/#comment-3825 Dusty Fri, 29 Feb 2008 01:05:59 +0000 http://sirenschronicles.com/2008/02/28/spark-of-controversy/#comment-3825 The subject <i>is controversial</i> Betmo, no lie there. You have laid out your argument well, and I agree with you. I can 'pass' for white, but I identify with brown people. There is historical context to why that is, which I won't go into here. That said, I am well aware of the 'white power' issue within the feminist society, and I have been since day one. I AM old enough to remember the beginning of feminism, and to have lived it. I have always tried to be upfront with people when it comes to my nationality or whatever the fuck it's called now a days..but there are times when people assumed I was white and promptly stepped in shit up to their knees when they opened their pieholes. Depending on the situation, I either let them have it with both barrels or I gently informed them of my brown-ness, watching their eyes bug out of their sockets and they commenced to stammer and stutter and explain what they 'really' meant. I knew what they meant..they said something racist and once that escaped from their lips, they couldn't pull it back no matter how fucking hard they tried to 'fix' it. So yes, racism does exist within the feminist community. And that's pretty fucked up because as you say..we should all be working for the same things..human rights. The subject is controversial Betmo, no lie there.

You have laid out your argument well, and I agree with you. I can ‘pass’ for white, but I identify with brown people. There is historical context to why that is, which I won’t go into here.

That said, I am well aware of the ‘white power’ issue within the feminist society, and I have been since day one. I AM old enough to remember the beginning of feminism, and to have lived it. I have always tried to be upfront with people when it comes to my nationality or whatever the fuck it’s called now a days..but there are times when people assumed I was white and promptly stepped in shit up to their knees when they opened their pieholes.

Depending on the situation, I either let them have it with both barrels or I gently informed them of my brown-ness, watching their eyes bug out of their sockets and they commenced to stammer and stutter and explain what they ‘really’ meant.

I knew what they meant..they said something racist and once that escaped from their lips, they couldn’t pull it back no matter how fucking hard they tried to ‘fix’ it.

So yes, racism does exist within the feminist community. And that’s pretty fucked up because as you say..we should all be working for the same things..human rights.

]]> By: JollyRoger http://sirenschronicles.com/2008/02/28/spark-of-controversy/comment-page-1/#comment-3814 JollyRoger Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:21:26 +0000 http://sirenschronicles.com/2008/02/28/spark-of-controversy/#comment-3814 You don't have to be a conservotard to be utterly frigging stupid. The Naderites are already starting their BS again, in spite of their boy being a 100% owned bitch of the RNC. Dogmatists are stupid, whatever their flavor. You don’t have to be a conservotard to be utterly frigging stupid. The Naderites are already starting their BS again, in spite of their boy being a 100% owned bitch of the RNC.

Dogmatists are stupid, whatever their flavor.

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