The Compassion Deficit: PostMortem of the Saddleback Forum
August 20, 2008 by Enigma4ever
I watched the Faith Forum ( or whatever it was called) tonight on TV, and sat documenting the Questions and the Answers. My son asked me” You are not a Christian, why are you watching?” I explained to him that I have watched the Evangelicals put a stranglehold on Issues, and leaders and the last two election processes. (Actually for me at this point I feel like am merely documenting a really bad car accident- merely noting the blood loss and the bandages used.) I explained to my son, I can not control or contribute to the dialogue, but that I can pay attention and note the Answers, because the answers sadly may indeed effect the Future for all of us. He nodded and sat and watched the Discussion as well. Some of the Questions were disturbing, but some were actually thought provoking.
And I thought Obama answered thoughtfully and with clarity. McMaverick pandered, and did his stomp speech and basically tried to convince one and all that being a POW and sharing his tales makes him a better person and ready to lead. Considering he avoided answering most questions it really left me more worried about his mental status. And also what bothered me is that pretty much anything he said recieved applause.He was Militaristic from the very first answer, naming General Betrayus as one of his spiritual heros?
I did also notice that Obama did try to answer honestly as possible and also did indeed try to bring up issues of concern, the economy, the poverty issues and the struggles of Day to Day Americans. He even brought up Issues about Compassion and Empathy being needed to confront the problems we face as a nation.
At this point all of us are seeing daily how bad things are here, from friends out of work to friends losing their homes to VETS coming back damaged and lost.We are witnessing daily why we need Compassion. I have been saying for over 3 years on this blog that we have a Compassion Deficit in this Country. But I also think that if people do not know or realize HOW BAD things are in this Country then the Deficit applies to outside our Country. We have been trying to save our country, and even fight 2 stolen Elections. We have written letters, protested, worked the phones, blogged everything and in great detail. And this Election, yes, we have stomped, knocked on doors, worked phone banks and yes, given hard earned money.And yes, some of us have Watched ALL the debates ( Heaven help us-even the Repug ones )and yes even read all books and websites and educated ourselves and our neighbors.
And yes, we have hopemongered, giving each other support and pep talks.And yes, as a Nurse and a Mom I am very serious about What I am doing with this blog..and why I blog, it is no longer “Just a Blog” or “Just Politics”. And yes, I have friends and visitors from all over who come to this blog, from UK, Spain, Japan,Canada, Asia and Down Under, and Scotland, Holland and Wales, most are supportive and understanding that we are trying our very damnest to save what is left of this battered Country. And most more than appreciate that the Bushco Regime Stole the Last Two Elections. They speak with compassion and hope and share our angst and our sadness that our Country is so battered. They understand the silent huge Battle we are waging as Bloggers. And to them I say Thank You and that I am grateful for your insight and your wisdom and your willingness to look at the issues and what we are fighting, a Corporatized Theocracy ( or is it a Theocratic Corporatocracy?)
I hope and pray that OUR Country does find it’s Compassion and its Moral Compass again…..until then I am fighting back with my keyboard, documenting the damage day by day…And I try to blog with my head and my heart, and I am listening with my head and my heart, because I am trying to make sure there is way to connect all of us and keep our Humanity Intact… and maybe give a better Country and Future to our children. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Compassion is sometimes the fatal capacity for feeling what it is like to live inside somebody else’s skin. It is the knowledge that there can never really be any peace and joy for me until there is peace and joy finally for you too.” Frederick Buechner quotes (American Author, b.1926)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.” Dalai Lama (Head of the Dge-lugs-pa order of Tibetan Buddhists, 1989 Nobel Peace Prize, b.1935) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“It is lack of love for ourselves that inhibits our compassion toward others. If we make friends with ourselves, then there is no obstacle to opening our hearts and minds to others.” Dalai Lama
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Well, you had to expect McCain to pander to his base, but I think it would have been better strategy on Obama’s part to have politely declined to appear. McCain and the bible-thumpers would have complained and tried to make an issue out of it, but it would have been in a vacuum. With Obama there, the television audience had to be ten times what it would have been with only McCain preaching to the choir.
I loved the part where Warren asked the candidates what they would do about religous persecution around the world. I was screaming at the TV: “Tell your omnipotent God to get off his lazy butt and do something about it!” Oh, the irony…
What a great post, enigma. Thank you.
I’m sure you and betmo and the others won’t mind if I blogroll the Sirens? It’s about time, really….
Pagan…thank you…definently blogroll Sirens-it is a great site, many good writers and thoughtprovoking posts aplenty….Dusty and Betmo run it and they do a great job….
Robb:::
I love your response and analysis…and yeah- the whole time I watch I have a bubble over my head that has a WHOLE different response- so I do understand…
I did not watch. I am having election overload.
I know thats not a good thing, but I am tired of this crappola.
Great post. I respect your dedication to pay attention to this so-called “faith forum” and the whole election process. Like Dusty, I didn’t watch it either, but I grew up Christian and don’t understand the applause for militarism. As the bumper sticker reads: When Jesus said ‘Love your enemies’ I think he meant ‘Don’t kill them.’
Border Explorers last blog post..Mexican Crime Wave (or maybe Crime Tsunami?)
I did not watch either (out celebrating the son’s 20th bd) but….
I am quoting Dada from his blog` because he nailed it:
“Why, in a nation that prides itself in the separation of church and state, the presidential candidates would agree to violate that tenet and aggrandize some narcissistic Christian evangelical hack trying to help his flock of sheep and thousands of congregations across the country decide who would make a better Christian president?”
I’m not going to debate who did better in the Religious debate forum, or if John McCain adhered to the “cone of silence”. I am asking why this debacle ever occured.
frans last blog post..Blink of an eye…
Regarding the cone-of-silence: Was that the regular one, http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/graphics/cone_kinc.gif , in the basement of Control or the portable one, http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/graphics/cone_hubert.gif , The Chief couldn’t extract himself from?
The episode with the portable cone-of-silence is one the funniest damn things ever on TV, right up there with the one where Max shows up to the formal party dressed as a rooster.
interesting post…. I am late on this chat, but stubbled in. Regarding the first blog about my lazy God. Although you don’t believe it… how is God lazy when he went to a cross to die for you. Yes, there is a lot of messed up stuff going on that I don’t understand, but he seems to still show up with tons of help through His people. I would think about what you are doing about the mess out there before you blame God… the God who chooses to give you a free will to choose Him or mock Him… your choice. You have already judged me as a wacko bible thumper who has put his faith in some fantasy. Actually I admire your faith, since you have placed your faith in the notion that there is no God, yet you are not omniscient. So with your apparent pride in your wisdom to blow off God…. the “what if there is a God?” still looms because you can’t know everything…thus it is impossible to say “there is no God.”
Inig, I appreciate your willingness and heart to be a solution and not just rant about all the problems (although i don’t know what you do beyond this blog). But it saddens me that you are entrenched in the extreme liberal rut. Doesn’t the Senate and Congress get some of the credit for the mess our nation is in? Last I checked, they legistrate reform… but i know much of the blame still goes to the top. I not here to defend Bush, although we will find out in years to come that he was not the evil idiot people rant about not… if Bush really stole the election doesn’t he get some credit for being brilliant…i didn’t think he was that smart. One last rant… I am a committed Christian, a pastor, a leader of a bunch of orphanages and help with aids victims, but I don’t want a theocracy and don’t know of one person who does. I do expect some morality and ethics in my leaders.
how is God lazy when he went to a cross to die for you.~It wasn’t God it was Jesus that supposedly died on the cross. Jesus is his son right, or was all that religious teaching jammed into my brain as a child just bullshit?
You have your thang sinner and we all have our thang. You want to believe in a just God, you go right ahead..just leave the rest of us the fuck alone regarding what we ‘believe’. ok?
James Dobson and his extremist ilk WANT a theocracy…make no mistake about that ok? There are people that are working towards that end here in America. Its a fact jack.
Dusty, I respect your right to want to be left alone to do “your thang”. That’s what is good about USA is that we don’t have to have religion crammed down our throats, nor humanism, hedonism, atheism, or paganism. From my little opinion… we are getting more paganistic in our US society or perhaps it is getting more polarized…dark -darker…light -lighter…and that will naturally be confrontational.
Here’s a thought to ponder for those who wish that Christians would just go away…. who would pick up the charity tab on much of the disasters that happen in the US and beyond? Do a little research and you find out that much of the money and relief are from religious organizations/churches. Of course the news doesn’t talk about that. I was part of the relief for hurricane Andrew and nearly all of the volunteers I met were Christians, except for the paid ones.
I have yet to find a hospital that was founded by an atheist. Hey I realize that there is jerks in church too, but without the church types or Christians you will have a compassion deficit without recovery and that’s the fact jack.
Also, about the God who died on the cross… Jesus was put on the cross (willingly) because he made it clear that he was God in flesh sent from his father in heaven to save mankind form being separated from a holy God by their sins. I know it is a little tough for a mere finite human to wrap our heads around an infinite divine plan and again the issue of faith comes in. You apparently have your beliefs that all this is bull and I have my freedom to live by this “bull” and the consequences will play out. You mentioned that you want to be left alone… but what compels me is compassion for you and your eternity. I am sorry if it that is misunderstood as extremist bible thumping bullshit.
I never said the biblethumpers need to go away. Do not put words in my mouth.
You have the freedom to believe in your god and at the same time there is freedom to not buy into that bs either.
This nation was not founded ‘under god’, no matter how badly the theocrats want to believe that, it just isn’t true.
What I believe is my business and my business alone. But I will tell you this: I do not believe in organized religion. More hate, death and destruction has come out of organized religion than anything else on this planet.
You have ‘the money’ because BushCO gives it to the churches and that is wrong. Faith-based initiatives are wrong and go against the separation of church and state.
Save your compassion for those who want and need it. Do not waste it on me. I am tired of self-righteous theocrats that pick and choose who to have ‘that compassion’ for.
Your god in the old testament was a mean son of a bitch. Jesus on the other hand, was a good man.
Dustys last blog post..Palin’s first Townhall meeting was screened..
“I have yet to find a hospital that was founded by an atheist.”
You have to look if you want to find: http://www.americanatheist.org/aut03/T1/ittner.html
Sorry if your the computer you used to post your comment is not search-engine-capable.
“how is God lazy when he went to a cross to die for you.”
For the sake of argument, let’s say your imaginary friends actually exist. Two thousand years between action may seem like a just the other day to you, but when it comes to real lengths of time on the geological scale, I’d say bible-thumpers have the proven record of not being able to wrap their finite minds around numbers with more than four digits.
However, I salute the good that organized religion does for suffering humans. If it wasn’t for the promise of a pie in the sky, some people wouldn’t be motivated to benefit mankind. It must be inexplicable to you that one human could help another human without an invisble, guiding hand. Tis’ the pity.
there are alot of really amazing wise comments here…comments about how if we listen and talk to each other we learn….No One likes to be preached at or judged…the post itself was about how we as a Country are experiencing a Compassion Deficit, that is concerning…troubling…I think many of us over the past 8 years have learned alot about living under a theocracy- having leadership that preaches at us ONE thing, and then goes and does another. Jesus was a good man, he believed in tolerance and non violence,and yes, even compassion he would never have bombed another country….he was accepting of others differences and all people…..When one’s country is taken over by a leadership that claims christian values - falsely and then wraps itself in the flag and the military- that is Fascism….
Most people are on some level Spiritual- meaning that in some way they nurture their spirit and those around them….there millions in this country that are deeply spiritual…There are those that would judge them and say ” well, tney are not religous”….and Jesus would weep at that…He was a good man.
The post was about how we as a people need to look into our hearts, our souls….and see how we treat people and talk to each other…are our words part of WHO we are…and part of the Compassion Question…
and these comments reflect that the post was valid to help people look at that issue…..with depth, sincerity and an open mind and heart….and some people are more open and compassionate than others…
Here’s a thought to ponder for those who wish that Christians would just go away…. who would pick up the charity tab on much of the disasters that happen in the US and beyond? Do a little research and you find out that much of the money and relief are from religious organizations/churches. Of course the news doesn’t talk about that. I was part of the relief for hurricane Andrew and nearly all of the volunteers I met were Christians, except for the paid ones.
Here’s a thought for Jesusistanis who refuse to recognize the corrosive effects of organized religion on humanity.
If not for all of the wars started in the name of religion (which has been damn near every one of them,) how much charity wouldn’t have been needed at all? I’d say that religion’s destructive effects on humanity have been demonstrably worse than any positivity. I am quite certain that religion has killed more people and destroyed more property than all the natural disasters of the world COMBINED.
Jolly Rogers last blog post..Johnny, Allen, Team Up In “Macacapalooza”
good stuff… i couldn’t link to the atheist site…didn’t work. Must be my lame computer, but Ill give you the benefit of the doubt. I actually was told by my very good friend who is proud to be atheist that there is no hospital by an atheist. I never said that atheist or God haters didn’t have compassion. People every day live by God’s principles and are blessed.
Robb (nice dog) don’t pity me… life is good and eternity is better and I am getting ready for both by the grace of God. I didn’t quite understand your point, but I am confident about the geological record (I was a science teacher), I studied last night about Keplar, Hawkins, Einstien, Hubble,etc and how their theories beg for a creator. Big Bang is cool… could it be that God was the banger? I don’t expect to convince anyone through a blog. I am a little surprise how emphatically you state that America was not a nation under God. (Again, I am not for a theocracy…. I liked Jefferson intent on the Seperation thing: government should not mingle in the church business and the church should not try to rule governments. Hence why the fleeing the suppressing gov of England and their forcing Cathalic church monopoly. But with a little homework you will find overwhelming amounts of evidence that our forefathers were influenced by their faith in God. In fact 52 of the 55 were committed Christians. Patrick Henry in 1776, wrote this “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here.” Immediately after creating the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted to purchase and import 20,000 copies of scripture for the people of this nation.
The University of Houston Political Science Department Research (secular school) asked the question: WHAT WAS THE KEY INFLUENCE UPON OUR FOUNDING FATHERS; they acquire 3,000 of the most important documents…{94% of the quotes of the Founding Fathers were based on The Bible; 30% direct quotes} I have volumes of this stuff. Never the less, i am not stating we should have a theocracy and just like the truth being told. I am cool with the freedom to believe or reject… just like the free will God gives because to love is to never force your will… unless someone is coming to kill you.
Enig, I appreciate your diplomacy, but Jesus wasn’t necessary tolerant to all. He came with both barrels toward the religionist (Pharises)…He did not like the concept that man can reach God and earn their way to Him. It is about realizing that it is a relationship… a humble surrender to God’s mercy and grace. He was also very narrow minded about who is going to heaven… Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life and the only way to the [God] is through me… John 14 i think. He also said the the road to heaven is narrow and few will be on it, and the road to hell is wide and many will be on it. Yet the good news is that you can choose before you die.
Jolly, I am sorry you have bought into the same old banter about the killing by religion. Yes, people are passionate about spiritual stuff and many have done stupid stuff in the so call name of God….and God is pissed about man using God for license to kill and justify their cause. But do some math…how many people have died for the sake of atheistic communist regimes of Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Hitler …as well as the pagan conquest dictators of the ancients…I used to know the round about number …one site list over 100 million.
Sinner,
Your entitled to your pov but not your version of the truth.
Far too many conquests and wars where started with religion as the basis for the carnage.
By your own admission, people do stupid stuff in the name of God…its about degrees evidently with you, and few of us here would see clear to buy into your version.. dude.
So kindly stick a sock in it.
Sinner- I will say this…It was a post about Compassion- plain and simple…I am sure there are many bible groups that meet on a Friday night where you could go and browbeat, judge or whatever. You are off subject- this post was about The Lack of Compassion in this Country and how it has entered Politics and efffected us as a Country. I am tired of you bullying other thoughtful people here with High and Mighty Poius ways, So I am asking you nicely to leave- and go find that Bible Study Group.
You are out of line, and have no reason to rude to Readers here at Sirens.
“But with a little homework you will find overwhelming amounts of evidence that our forefathers were influenced by their faith in God. In fact 52 of the 55 were committed Christians.”
We had 55? I would put the number much lower and here is what they had to say:
John Adams:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/adams.htm
Benjamin Franklin:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/quote-f1.htm#FRANKLIN
Thomas Jefferson:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/jefferson.htm
James Madison:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/madison.htm
Thomas Paine:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/paine.htm
George Washington:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/washington.htm
That’s six biggies by my count. Hard to see where they fit into your 52 of 55, so-called “fact.”
“But do some math.how many people have died for the sake of atheistic communist regimes of Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Hitler…”
Of course, if it hadn’t been for Stalin’s attrocious religious upbringing, history might have been different. I’ll throw you a bone and claim Lenin and Mao, but Hitler? No way, pal. He’s all yours. Let’s see if you can name the author of this little gem before you get to the end:
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…. And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people…. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.”
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922
Not enough for you? Here’s more:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm
But he didn’t act like a Christian? If I said Lenin and Mao didn’t act like atheists, you’d probably laugh at me just as I’m laughing at you.
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